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Offline asdf  
#21 Posted : 03 December 2009 07:49:35(UTC)
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Gildermershina wrote:
That's like, almost the same as how my Nanowrimo this year was going to wrap up.


Gildermershina wrote:
Man, this reminds me of my disastrously unwieldy high fantasy sci-fi epic for which I had planned out


Apperently everyone is just ripping off ideas from Gildy then. ;)
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Offline forkboy  
#22 Posted : 03 December 2009 07:55:06(UTC)
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To be fair, he does have like a billion ideas a minute (that he never does anything with of course) so that you've had a similar idea as him is not shocking.
Offline asdf  
#23 Posted : 03 December 2009 07:57:11(UTC)
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Lol, I know, its just hilarious.
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Offline Gildermershina  
#24 Posted : 03 December 2009 09:14:51(UTC)
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asdf wrote:
Gildermershina wrote:
That's like, almost the same as how my Nanowrimo this year was going to wrap up.


Gildermershina wrote:
Man, this reminds me of my disastrously unwieldy high fantasy sci-fi epic for which I had planned out


Apperently everyone is just ripping off ideas from Gildy then. ;)


I wouldn't go that far, the former is just the thing of creating fantasy worlds. Although the latter, I did post the whole book, but even so, there's aspects of it in many actual sci-fi works (Dick especially)
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Offline asdf  
#25 Posted : 08 December 2009 00:18:25(UTC)
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Chapter One: James of Ailforth

Ailforth is a small village just a few miles away from the city Narsik. It contains mostly farmers and small business people. Most of its inhabitants are elderly, and were some of Serapnoir’s first humans. James, son of Aril, is a young man of about nineteen. He and his family are workers and farmers who are known for their generosity. Amborn arrived in the village on a Wednesday like all others, but young James’ life was about to change forever. From his perspective it looked as though any old man who was approaching him. “Are you James, son of Aril?” Amborn asked in a smooth voice. “Uh, yes that’s me. How do you know me sir?” Amborn smiled as he learned that he had found the boy he was looking for.

“I do not know you, nor have I ever known you. My name is Amborn; I have come to offer you a job.” James looked at Amborn with wondering eyes and asked, “A job? What do you mean?” “Well, I need you to accompany me on a trip to Palamoore. When we get there I will give you further details.” To this James was startled, he had never visited the capitol of Lamerith, but had seen lovely paintings of the golden city. “I would have to talk it over with my father. But I assume that I could come along. What are you paying?” Amborn chuckled, “Nothing. Not yet anyway. You will understand when it’s done.” James immediately realized that this man must have been insane to offer something so foolish to accept. “Well, then I’m afraid I must decline Mr. Amborn sir.” This brought a frown to Amborn’s face, “Well then, I guess I will leave you be.” And Amborn left for the local inn.

Amborn had to rethink his plan and wondered if he had made the right decision, should he have offered money? He had though that the boy would have eventually come around. As he lay down to sleep, he decided to give it time, and maybe his plan would work after all. The next morning, James was waiting for Amborn at the hotel’s door. “Sir, may I ask you a question?” “Yes, young man?” “Well…I was wondering what this journey consists of, and what sort of duties are to come after we get to Palamoore.” Amborn decided that this was his chance and told James what he wanted to know, “It will be a very long, journey. We will cross the Black Lake, and go through many fields and hills. When we get to Palamoore, I will meet with the King and when we are finished, depending on his response we will do one of two things…” Amborn stopped talking leaving James to wonder as he walked away and began a conversation with Aril.

“You are aware of my offer to James then?” “Oh yes, he told me yesterday. I don’t mind him going on the trip so long as it’s not too dangerous.” James came running over and interrupted, “It won’t be, just a simple trip to Palamoore, which is on the other side of the country. No problem at all.” James smiled, but Aril frowned a bit, “Oh, all the way to Palamoore Mr. Amborn?” “Yes, but I assure you that I will take good care of your boy Aril, and I am a man of my word.” A grin finally returned to Aril’s face and he agreed as he walked away to do his shopping. “So do we have a deal then James? Will you come with me?” Thoughts rained through his mind but James agreed with curious ideas in his head about what the capitol city must be like. “Good, we will leave in precisely one week. Till then, I bid you farewell.”

James waited for Amborn’s arrival at his doorstep. He had packed all of what he thought they would need and was now watching out his window down the long, wide, dirty road to the inn. Finally Amborn was seen approaching and he ran to the door. “Good day James.” “To you too.” He replied happily. “Have you said your goodbyes to your family?” “Yes sir…I did so this morning.” “Good, then we may leave now?” “If you are ready, sir.” Amborn nodded and they walked out the door and to the back of the inn where there were two horses waiting for them. One was brown like most horses, but the other was strangely tinted blue. “Amborn, is your horse alright?” “Of course, I assume you are talking about his blue color?” “Well…yea.” “Ha ha, its natural, I assure you.” They set off, heading west towards the Black Lake.

Most of the terrain between Ailforth and the Black Lake is farm land. Fields and fields of different fruits and vegetables cover the path for nearly forty miles. Amborn and James both were quiet for nearly half the way. James was the first to talk, asking a question, “Amborn? What is it you must ask the King?” “I need him to make a very important decision on something. You may not believe it, but the fate of Lamerith depends on his choice.” “Really, what could possibly so important that it would affect so much?” To this Amborn chose not to reply, remembering his promise to God not to tell anyone of his existence. Unlike with Earth, God did not send messages or signs of his existence because he felt that it may have tempted humans knowing that they had such an important choice to make regarding their lives. He was wrong, but chose to keep the secret, as it made for more peaceful living among those who believed in all different kinds of Gods.

The Black Lake is a mass of water larger than Ailforth. Its water is so very deep, that it is almost a black color, hints the name. The lake has been used as the main water supply of Lamerith for over five hundred years. It took the two men approximately six days to get there and they were happy to see the different plants and animals that were drinking its water. They joined right in and refilled their canteens and managed to kill a few squirrels for dinner. Again, James tried to get more answers out of Amborn for most of the night, but he just would not budge. Amborn wanted to tell James, so that he could make a fair decision on whether he wanted to carry on or not, but he was also a man of his word and therefore bound to God.

At some point during their night at the Black Lake, their camp was invaded and many of their things were taken. When they awoke they found nothing but the tent around them and Amborn’s staff. “Well, this is not good.” Amborn said calmly. “Not good? They took everything!” This angry reply made Amborn smile. “Really? I think you may want to look again.” James threw his head back to mock Amborn but when he did look back at the camp, he found everything was there again. “How…where did it come from?” he said quickly. “I am a mage, I wizard if you will.” “Oh…I’ve heard of them before. Dad said he knew one when he was young.” James replied softly. “He probably did, in other parts of Serapnoir there are all sorts of wizards. It’s quite a gift.” “What sort of things can you do?” “There are limits. I can’t just do everything you understand?” James nodded and understood that this was another question that Amborn did not wish to answer directly. “Let us water the horses and be on our way then?”

“How far are we now, from Palamoore?” James asked as they were crossing a particularly dry and boring field. “About sixty miles and we’ll be there. I suspect we will have to camp overnight on the other side of the lake.” “I see. How far are we from there?” Amborn chuckled at this, “Dear boy, have patience, we will get there when we get there.” “Sorry.” James said embarrassedly. “It’s alright. Look there” Amborn said as he pointed to a large tree with what looked to be a horse behind it. “It’s a horse!” “No, it’s a Grogan.” “A what?” “A Grogan, it has the body of a horse, but the head of a great ape. Smart creatures, near human intelligent actually.” As Amborn explained, the Grogan walked out from behind the tree and revealed its head to the two men. At first James was frightened by the weird creature, but it walked over and introduced itself as if it were just another man. “My name is Derek. Who are you?” “We are James and Amborn, of Ailforth. We come through your fields on our way to Palamoore. We have a meeting with the King.” “The King? What could two men from Ailforth have done to deserve such an honor?” James sighed at this, but Amborn replied happily, “We men of Ailforth are more than we appear. Small village, but the people are people none the less. “Very well, I will let you be on your way, men of Ailforth.” Derek walked away after shaking hands and the two continued on their way to the western shore of the lake.

The other side of the lake was quiet and peaceful throughout the night and both men had a nice sleep. They awoke to a beautiful morning just as the sun was rising over the distant Mount Gibs. “Come James, nary 50 miles left and we will see the gates of Palamoore.” Amborn said as James finished packing his things. They climbed on their horses and began their remaining ride to the capitol city. Many amazing sights are scattered through this area, waterfalls, large rock formations, and the home of the Grogan’s which is hidden behind the largest stone gate man has ever known.

The gates to Palamoore are very tall, and are painted in a beautiful gold color. They descended a small hill down to the guards who asked what their names were and what their business was. “We are here to see King Laos on a subject of impending war involving Zaleth the Dark.” The guard looked shock at such a refined demand, “Do you know Zaleth sir?” “I am glad to say that I do not. I am here to ask the King to allow me and my young ward here to help him and aid him in a plan.” “Well then…I guess you can pass…go ahead.” The guard opened the gate to allow the two to pass. As the crack in the doors widened it revealed a city almost entirely pained in gold, with building raising high up in the air and a large castle rising up in the very back of the cities limits. To Amborn it was nothing compared to Pintera, land of the Angels. But it was something to behold to young James who had spent his entire life in the small, farm centered, Ailforth.

“Welcome to Palamoore James. What do you think of the city?” James barely heard Amborn due to the loud noise of people talking and walking around the paths. “It’s amazing…I don’t think I have ever seen anything like it!” “It is a grand city. Come now, the path to the castle is this way.” Amborn ordered softly as he changed direction down a wide and long path leading towards the stairs. The castle is made up of five levels, and the Kings court is at the top level and the men had to walk on foot as their horses would not continue on the steps. “Almost there James, I promise.” Amborn apologized many times for the long walk but James always replied, “I’m fine.” Finally, the large red doors of the court room were in sight and the doors swung open as a short tubby man came out to greet Amborn. “Hello sir, we have been notified of you arrival. My name is Thomas, and I have been instructed to take you to the King in the tower.” The man pointed his large finger at the top of the nearby tower which stretched far above the fifth level. “More steps?” Amborn asked semi-politely. “I’m afraid so sir.” Amborn frowned and held his staff in the air, whispered something, and when his staff touched the ground they appeared at the top of the steps at the towers door. “Wow!” was James reaction but Thomas took it differently, “Oh…you’re a mage I see?” “You could say that I suppose.” Amborn said in a chuckling voice.

Thomas knocked on the door and was responded with a quiet greeting. “Come in Thomas…are they here?” “Yes sir, I have brought them to you, Sir Amborn and James of Ailforth.” The King was sitting in a large chair looking directly at them. He was a very tall man with a muscular build. “You have come to advise me of something?” Amborn was shocked at the knowledge of the King, as they had only told the guard who could not have possibly reached the King before they did. “Yes…On the issue of Zaleth and his Kroaks, I would like to aid you in ridding him from the land.” A nasty smile struck across the Kings face, “No thank you. I do not wish to take action against Zaleth until I must. Thomas, take them down to the city.” And with that the two were escorted out without the answer that Amborn had hoped for. James walked along patiently, still not knowing exactly how this would affect the land of Lamerith, but he figured that it would be best to trust Amborn in his decisions. They got a room at an inn with great marble floor and silver walls. “Amborn, how will this affect Lamerith, just because he chooses not to enlist your aid does not mean that you cannot help anyway.” Amborn was shining his sword as he turned to reply, “True. But I would have been of better help with his support. Now I am afraid that things must be done in secret. In the shadows, behind everyone else’s back…and the decision that could save Lamerith now lies on you, James.” This struck James and he did not know how to reply. “What do you mean “lies on me”?” This was what Amborn had been afraid of and worried him throughout the journey. That the King would not accept him and James would have to be placed as the savior of Lamerith. “James, the world is not as it seems. There are darker things going on here than just a mage running amok. Very dark and difficult things are about to happen in your life, and there is no way to reverse them. Should I explain now or later?” “What do you mean? Tell me what is going on here!” James demanded with force, something he had not done before. “James, you are to be the leader of Palamoore in a battle against Zaleth. The King has already been reached by Zaleth and is now on his side. We have been betrayed and must do what we can to save Lamerith or Zaleth will rule.” “Me? I’m just some farmer from Ailforth! How am I supposed to help?” “You will wield a great power on the battlefield…as you have been chose by God as the one to save the people.”
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Offline Rincewind  
#26 Posted : 08 December 2009 01:12:45(UTC)
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i really really really don't want to offend you here asdf but....

my god that sounds cheesy. Fantasy can be done well or horribly badly and im my experience the best kind of fantasy is the one written in a way that you know and can relate your own experiences to...
when i think of great fantasy i think of George R R Martin, Steven Eriksen, Robert Jorden not the chap that wrote eragon..
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
Offline asdf  
#27 Posted : 08 December 2009 01:17:38(UTC)
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Lol, its alright, I can take criticism. It probably is cheesy, its only my first fantasy and I am drawing heavily from the books I have read. Not Eragon, but actually more of Lord of the Rings, and Chronicles of Narnia...Thanks though, hopefully I can improve in future chapters. Could you explain a little better what the problem/s is/are.
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Offline Rincewind  
#28 Posted : 08 December 2009 01:38:52(UTC)
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tread carefully Rince.....

My first issue is the prologue.. Instead of having a short blast about your entire world, maybe it would be better having your prologue set in heaven with God explaining the problems to the angel about to be sent down to aid this newer world, that way your not trying to educate your readers about your world but entertaining them and introducing them at the same time.
If i was writing this (which im not), i would start with Amborn being summoned to Gods chamber and being told of a holy mission he is to be sent on, where the mission is, what he must attempt to do etc etc... Possibly have Zaleth either as a relation or friend of Amborn so there is an internal conflict for Amborn to deal with as well... remember nowadays nothing is simply black and white..
then instead of telling people about these fantastical creatures i would have Amborn come accross them and then you can describe them from the viewpoint of someone who has never seen it before.

its clear you are going for a Gandalf like character with Amborn, but its not really working. Gandalf was known and legendary even before the start of the hobbit and had a history and a lot of interaction with the world before we are introduced to him... Just sending down an angel and hoping it will work the same way doesn't quite sit right in my opinion.

with James, we know nothing about him, why does Amborn want him to accompany him? what is james like as a person, who are his family, friends etc etc? you need to be able to connect emotionally with the characters in the book or whats the point in reading it?
James seams very calm when Amborn claims he is a wizard, not at all ruffled or shocked... i know i would be!

im impressed that they got to see the king that easily, if any old loon can claim that and gain entrance, surely zaleth could have assasinated him long ago...

apart from that the dialogue runs poorly in my opinion and you rush to much...

in what would be two pages of a book you have introduced your two main characters including their pasts, completed a longish journey, spoken to a king and attempted to describe a major city...

you need more description, more plot setting, a better way of introducing readers to the world and a whole lot more of character development and then things like the plot and character conversation should flow better simply because you can say to yourself, this guys like this... so what would he say and do if i put him in this situation...


i highly highly recomend you read these books to see what really good fantasy is...

Steven Erikson
1. Gardens of the Moon (1999)
2. Deadhouse Gates (2000)
3. Memories of Ice (2001)
4. House of Chains (2002)
5. Midnight Tides (2004)
6. The Bonehunters (2006)
7. Reaper's Gale (2007)
8. Toll the Hounds (2008)
9. Dust of Dreams (2009)
10. The Crippled God (forthcoming)

Robert Jordan
0. New Spring
1. The Eye of the World
2. The Great Hunt
3. The Dragon Reborn
4. The Shadow Rising
5. The Fires of Heaven
6. Lord of Chaos
7. A Crown of Swords
8. The Path of Daggers
9. Winter's Heart
10. Crossroads of Twilight
11. Knife of Dreams
12. The Gathering Storm
13. Towers of Midnight
14. A Memory of Light

George R. R. Martin
# A Game of Thrones (1996)
# A Clash of Kings (1998)
# A Storm of Swords (2000)
# A Feast for Crows (2005)


to name but three really really good authors...
you may be able to guess but Fantasy is the main genre that i like to read. :)
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
Offline asdf  
#29 Posted : 08 December 2009 01:53:41(UTC)
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I have to say thanks Rince, I can tell you actually took time to write that up and I really appreciate it. Here are a few things I would like to address though.

1. I know the diolouge is bad...I am having severe problems with that, and figuring out how to write it well.

2. A lot of the character details and parts that arent explained were not for a reason, they turn out to be major revelations later on in the story.

3. They got through because Zaleth knew he was coming, and told the King who as stated is now on his side, which is also why Zaleth has not killed him. :)

4. I agree with rushing, I am trying to find that ballance between too slow and too fast, and have not succeeded yet.

Overall though, I thank you for your comments, and really do understand where your coming from...in fact I agree with you. Would you mind if I took some of your ideas and reshaped them into the story?
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Offline Rincewind  
#30 Posted : 08 December 2009 02:01:45(UTC)
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not at all, all i did was point out basic flaws, something which i think every single other person who read this should and could have done.. any criticism i give is not supposed to be harsh, but simply to try and help you write a better story so use whatever ideas you want to.

the dialogue is bad in my opinion simply because there is no character to hang it on. Flesh out the characters and the dialogue should get better.

i still find the getting to the king bit very very easy....
you are rushing it far to fast, trying to propel the story to intersting bits instead of taking the time to develop the world and let the reader invest in it.. I want to feel a part of the world i am reading about, and thats very very hard to do when the author is rushing pel mell through it all with a bulldozer...

if you want to reveal interesting plot points later like for example james is the real king etc etc etc thats fine... that does not mean you can't say anything about them... you can still describe them as they are now.... for example

James gritted his teeth at the axe in his hands rubbing against his newest blisters... pausing for a minute from chopping wood, he arched his back to rid himself of some of the knots. Glancing towards the road he saw a strange old man starring at him thaughtfully. Putting him from his mind he headed inside to quench his thirst and talk to his mother.......
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
Offline Gildermershina  
#31 Posted : 08 December 2009 02:07:13(UTC)
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To be fair though, you're taking the stance that unless you're going to write something great, why write at all? I'm sure those authors started out with clumsy dialogue and poor pacing before they got to be proper authors.

In the past attempts I've made at realising my fantasy world, I've come to the crippling conclusion that I can't write narrative. I'm far more interested in the world, in the background than in the story. It's true of almost all fantasy-themed things that I have read, or seen, or played. In Lord of the Rings, I'm far more fascinated by the concept of Ungoliant the spider, and Morgoth, cutting down the Trees of the Valar which were the Sun and the Moon, than Frodo's journey. Not to mention the maps with strange places on it that never get visited. It made me want to draw my own maps and create my own world, which is basically the reason why I stopped reading fantasy. It drives me to distraction because of the world that's already in my head. Hell, I even have a story, but it consists of guy gets some news, goes on a long boring quest, and since I went for a more realistic tone there's not really monsters or anything to make that bit interesting, and then eventually gets to this place and hangs out for a bit, and then writes a book and then goes home, and then goes insane, but I don't know how to write that compellingly, how to pace it, how to make any of hat interesting and so I haven't done it, and I'm left with a ridiculously detailed world in which no compelling stories are told.

Franly, I'd rather have written it and it be a bit shit that be left with this idea still rattling around in my brain.

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Offline asdf  
#32 Posted : 08 December 2009 02:10:07(UTC)
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Eeither way, thanks.

I see what you mean, it helps a lot. I dont think I will rewrite the first chapter, but I will be sure to flesh out chapter two, just your help has gave me some great ideas and I think I will improve upon it at least a bit. As you cant tell, chapter one ended on a cliffhanger, and leaves it open for what I am planning next, and you kind of helped me rewrite the plan. Lol, I also see how I can add more detail to the people and stuff to. Damn your good. Thanks man, may not seemed like much, but it helped tons. (SPOILERS) My plan is for James to not believe Amborn, and their to be a long conversations about God, and how Amborn just broke his promise to him, followed by Jame having to overthrow the king in a semi-battle with his soldiers and even after that he must convince the people that he is worthy and prove that he deserves to be leader. This is followed by a series of trials and self tribulations that reveal a lot about James and Amborn will confront God about his broken promise. (SPOILERS)
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Offline Rincewind  
#33 Posted : 08 December 2009 02:12:38(UTC)
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Gildermershina wrote:
To be fair though, you're taking the stance that unless you're going to write something great, why write at all? I'm sure those authors started out with clumsy dialogue and poor pacing before they got to be proper authors.

In the past attempts I've made at realising my fantasy world, I've come to the crippling conclusion that I can't write narrative. I'm far more interested in the world, in the background than in the story. It's true of almost all fantasy-themed things that I have read, or seen, or played. In Lord of the Rings, I'm far more fascinated by the concept of Ungoliant the spider, and Morgoth, cutting down the Trees of the Valar which were the Sun and the Moon, than Frodo's journey. Not to mention the maps with strange places on it that never get visited. It made me want to draw my own maps and create my own world, which is basically the reason why I stopped reading fantasy. It drives me to distraction because of the world that's already in my head. Hell, I even have a story, but it consists of guy gets some news, goes on a long boring quest, and since I went for a more realistic tone there's not really monsters or anything to make that bit interesting, and then eventually gets to this place and hangs out for a bit, and then writes a book and then goes home, and then goes insane, but I don't know how to write that compellingly, how to pace it, how to make any of hat interesting and so I haven't done it, and I'm left with a ridiculously detailed world in which no compelling stories are told.

Franly, I'd rather have written it and it be a bit shit that be left with this idea still rattling around in my brain.

the silmarilion is my favorate tolkin book as well.... I just love the history of it...

and no im not taking that stand point.. All im saying is if you are trying to create an entire world, you need to try and do it in a way that people who are reading it can connect with....

i don't think if you want to write it has to be something great (or else i would be writting nothing at all) but i do think some time and effort has to be put into developing your ideas simply to do them justice...
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
Offline Gildermershina  
#34 Posted : 08 December 2009 02:33:41(UTC)
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Rincewind wrote:
Gildermershina wrote:
To be fair though, you're taking the stance that unless you're going to write something great, why write at all? I'm sure those authors started out with clumsy dialogue and poor pacing before they got to be proper authors.

In the past attempts I've made at realising my fantasy world, I've come to the crippling conclusion that I can't write narrative. I'm far more interested in the world, in the background than in the story. It's true of almost all fantasy-themed things that I have read, or seen, or played. In Lord of the Rings, I'm far more fascinated by the concept of Ungoliant the spider, and Morgoth, cutting down the Trees of the Valar which were the Sun and the Moon, than Frodo's journey. Not to mention the maps with strange places on it that never get visited. It made me want to draw my own maps and create my own world, which is basically the reason why I stopped reading fantasy. It drives me to distraction because of the world that's already in my head. Hell, I even have a story, but it consists of guy gets some news, goes on a long boring quest, and since I went for a more realistic tone there's not really monsters or anything to make that bit interesting, and then eventually gets to this place and hangs out for a bit, and then writes a book and then goes home, and then goes insane, but I don't know how to write that compellingly, how to pace it, how to make any of hat interesting and so I haven't done it, and I'm left with a ridiculously detailed world in which no compelling stories are told.

Franly, I'd rather have written it and it be a bit shit that be left with this idea still rattling around in my brain.

the silmarilion is my favorate tolkin book as well.... I just love the history of it...


Actually, I never finished reading the Silmarillion, I got about as far as the bit where it goes all Biblical half-way through "Ramamanamarth, son of Fiacarthinarthawahuba, whose brother was Zeejabbahoozawitz..." I learnt most of the background from a big companion book called Middle-Earth Bestiary, which covered characters in some astonishing detail, compiling as much information from every reference point in all the published Middle-Earth works. And to be honest, reading somebody summarising Tolkeins ideas, that was more enjoyable to me than his actual novels.
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Offline Rincewind  
#35 Posted : 08 December 2009 02:35:25(UTC)
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you gave up just before the good bit... i really do recomend going back and giving it another crack..
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
Offline Gildermershina  
#36 Posted : 08 December 2009 02:38:49(UTC)
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Rincewind wrote:
you gave up just before the good bit... i really do recomend going back and giving it another crack..


What, you mean man and elf-lady go to steal them jewels from that monster's head? Like I say, I know what happens, I'm not sure I need to wade through the actual text at this point.
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Offline Rincewind  
#37 Posted : 08 December 2009 02:42:29(UTC)
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but then theres all the other bits of history after the silmarillions are taken back, like numinor (sp?) etc etc

maybe its just because im a history nut that it appeals to me...
I hate it when people see me at the supermarket and they are like:
Hey, what are you doing here?
and im just like:
Oh you know, hunting elephants
Offline Gildermershina  
#38 Posted : 08 December 2009 02:59:44(UTC)
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Rincewind wrote:
but then theres all the other bits of history after the silmarillions are taken back, like numinor (sp?) etc etc

maybe its just because im a history nut that it appeals to me...


The flooded city, the aforementioned Ungoliant/Morgoth tree-felling tag-team, the dwarves of the blue mountains, the five wizards of which two have vanished into unknown lands, the great crossing to Middle-Earth, all that stuff I'm pretty aware of, from the Silmarillion and all the other scraps here and there in the Lost Tales and what not.
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Offline Aj  
#39 Posted : 08 December 2009 03:11:42(UTC)
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Gildermershina wrote:
To be fair though, you're taking the stance that unless you're going to write something great, why write at all? I'm sure those authors started out with clumsy dialogue and poor pacing before they got to be proper authors.

In the past attempts I've made at realising my fantasy world, I've come to the crippling conclusion that I can't write narrative. I'm far more interested in the world, in the background than in the story. It's true of almost all fantasy-themed things that I have read, or seen, or played. In Lord of the Rings, I'm far more fascinated by the concept of Ungoliant the spider, and Morgoth, cutting down the Trees of the Valar which were the Sun and the Moon, than Frodo's journey. Not to mention the maps with strange places on it that never get visited. It made me want to draw my own maps and create my own world, which is basically the reason why I stopped reading fantasy. It drives me to distraction because of the world that's already in my head. Hell, I even have a story, but it consists of guy gets some news, goes on a long boring quest, and since I went for a more realistic tone there's not really monsters or anything to make that bit interesting, and then eventually gets to this place and hangs out for a bit, and then writes a book and then goes home, and then goes insane, but I don't know how to write that compellingly, how to pace it, how to make any of hat interesting and so I haven't done it, and I'm left with a ridiculously detailed world in which no compelling stories are told.

Franly, I'd rather have written it and it be a bit shit that be left with this idea still rattling around in my brain.


With things like that, the actual basic storyline can be the most utterly dull thing anyone could ever comprehend. However it's all about the levels of description and the amount of personality you give to the characters.

Also, a technique I usually prefer to use is never actually set out to describe the persons personality at the start, I'd rather show it through dialogue and their actions and things like that, therefore the reader can get a certain impression from him rather than him just being told what's happening.
Offline Gildermershina  
#40 Posted : 08 December 2009 03:18:55(UTC)
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Aj wrote:
Gildermershina wrote:
To be fair though, you're taking the stance that unless you're going to write something great, why write at all? I'm sure those authors started out with clumsy dialogue and poor pacing before they got to be proper authors.

In the past attempts I've made at realising my fantasy world, I've come to the crippling conclusion that I can't write narrative. I'm far more interested in the world, in the background than in the story. It's true of almost all fantasy-themed things that I have read, or seen, or played. In Lord of the Rings, I'm far more fascinated by the concept of Ungoliant the spider, and Morgoth, cutting down the Trees of the Valar which were the Sun and the Moon, than Frodo's journey. Not to mention the maps with strange places on it that never get visited. It made me want to draw my own maps and create my own world, which is basically the reason why I stopped reading fantasy. It drives me to distraction because of the world that's already in my head. Hell, I even have a story, but it consists of guy gets some news, goes on a long boring quest, and since I went for a more realistic tone there's not really monsters or anything to make that bit interesting, and then eventually gets to this place and hangs out for a bit, and then writes a book and then goes home, and then goes insane, but I don't know how to write that compellingly, how to pace it, how to make any of hat interesting and so I haven't done it, and I'm left with a ridiculously detailed world in which no compelling stories are told.

Franly, I'd rather have written it and it be a bit shit that be left with this idea still rattling around in my brain.


With things like that, the actual basic storyline can be the most utterly dull thing anyone could ever comprehend. However it's all about the levels of description and the amount of personality you give to the characters.

Also, a technique I usually prefer to use is never actually set out to describe the persons personality at the start, I'd rather show it through dialogue and their actions and things like that, therefore the reader can get a certain impression from him rather than him just being told what's happening.


Even so, in practical terms, how can you make a through the countryside, and then eventually through a steep-sided valley full of skeletal remains, and then through more country, interesting? Two options I see, bring along another person and make them have conversations, or have there be a number of exciting occurrences on the journey. And how to illustrate the passage of time on a journey that takes months? I know how you do that in film, but in a novel? You can't really do a montage in writing.
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