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Offline Gildermershina  
#41 Posted : 13 July 2009 04:12:31(UTC)
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11/9 (as it should be) was horrible certainly, and a tragedy, but there have been many before and since, where many more have died, they just didn't happen in America. America is also responsible for its fair share of terrorism, invading and destabilising countries for oil and throwing out tyrants to install puppet governments the people don't want, and having a minority of their troops commit acts of field torture and human rights violations on innocent civilians, and all this since September 11th. It's because America doesn't get attacked on its home soil it came as something of a shock, and the knee jerk reaction has been to lash out internationally and clamp down nationally. America always needs The Enemy for the American public to hand over their rights to the government, to fuel the machines of war for the profits of the few. It's been the British, the Japanese, the Russians, the Cubans, the Koreans, and now it's the turn of the Muslims to be reason why the government has to have blanket permission to tap everyone's phonelines and root through personal records.

It was a tragedy that's been turned into a manifesto. Because apparently America was fine up until this happened. Meanwhile people are struggling to make ends meet in dead end towns of high unemployment and kids are going to school to shoot their classmates, and New Orleans lies in sodden ruins, and the bankers are taking government handouts to keep their companies afloat then bailing with massive pensions while the ship sinks with everyone else aboard, and radical Christians are stopping gay couples from marrying and killing abortion doctors because apparently pro-life only applies to the UN-BORN, and people are driving half a mile to pick up milk in their hummers with the A/C on and the sprinklers running, and the media is engaging in a petty bullshit he-said-she-said game at the sidelines of a great political farce where nobody really knows who they're voting for or why, and street gangs fight to the death over druglands, and the racism and bigotry of colonial rule continues to underpin every facet of society...

America's problems are not out here, they're on home soil.
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Offline Instead of the Everyday  
#42 Posted : 13 July 2009 16:42:41(UTC)
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You speak as though it's only America that has these problems. Dead end towns of high employment can be found anywhere. Kids shooting up schools happen across the globe. While it's unspeakable that New Orleans hasn't gotten the proper help it deserves, many other American cities have been thriving culturally and economically, and have been becoming increasingly safe since the mid '80s, most notably New York City and Los Angeles (give LA from the mid '90s).

You speak of our bankers and wall street executives with shame and distaste, and we do to. You should have seen the reaction against Bernie Madoff around here. But before you go pointing fingers at the greedy and the unjust, make sure one is pointed squarely at a great many of your politicians who have been in the news recently.

I also don't want to make this a USA vs UK incident, these corruption, greed and indulgence can be found in a great many places. It isn't only capitalism and republicanism that houses these characteristics either. From Communist Russia to Militaristic Uganda, from America's capitalism to UK's parliament it is apparent everywhere. Women are required to walk 5 paces behind men in certain Muslim countries. Who is going to scale which unjust action is more severe than another? Is it the lack of women's rights or is it a manipulation of the law and justice system to cheat people out of their money and savings?

As a response to 9/11, however, my reaction is clouded by the fact that I live in New York, less than 15 minutes from the city. I've witnessed first hand the death and destruction of that day. I was also in Oxford the day of the terrorist bombing of London in 2005, and visited London only a week after the attack. It was amazing (for lack of a better term) to see the dichotomy of reaction. The amount of casualties notwithstanding, both attacks are identical in my eyes, but not in those of my countrymen nor in those of the British (and specifically Londoners).

I've been yelled at in French, Dutch and Italian for the actions of my country. I've been spit at by Italian disc jockeys for being American. I've been told by a British woman that Americans are pussies and that if the 2005 bombings had happened in New York, the city would have been shut down for weeks. It takes a lot of energy to withstand those comments and accusations, especially when there is a language barrier. I know what the world thinks of the US, and that is only of Western Europe, our supposed friends.

To judge is to be judged, and do not lest the eyes of judgment be cast upon you. We all do it. But to generalize and list all of the things that you (Gildy) have just listed, and say that this is on "home soil" is to assume the norm and common. Have you witnessed these things with your own eyes? Do radical Christians allow gay couples to marry in your town? Should we examine the foreign policies of the United Kingdom? I have a great respect for you as a poster, but your most recent post sounded so much like the jargon that's been cast upon me (as though I am an extension of my countries politics) from domestics and foreigners alike.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out that isn't a response directly to your post, Gildy. Merely a reaction to my experience with what you're saying and to 9/11 in general. Please don't assume any accusatory tone, it wasn't my intention.

Edited by user 13 July 2009 16:45:50(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline sav  
#43 Posted : 13 July 2009 16:56:15(UTC)
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The Nimrods wrote:
The only war/act of terror I think should be remembered on a super gigantic scale is Vietnam, 1.5 million soldiers died,and I think that was only Americans and our allies.Add another 20 thousand for the north vietnamese.


are you saying that the us attack another territory and the ones that we have to remember are those american soldiers? please, tell me you're just not saying something like that.
Offline sav  
#44 Posted : 13 July 2009 17:11:41(UTC)
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The Nimrods wrote:
I said it's not as bad as it was when it happened..Now say 9/11/02, that would still be serious because it was only a year after.We'll always remember and respect the day but it's not as serious as it used to be.People hate America so they attack us,we kill 100,000 of them, it's over.On a scale of how many of us died compared to them, 10 times more people died that weren't American because of it.I don't remember 9/11 for the trade center which is still awful, I remember 9/11 for the aftermath,. that's all I have to say, if you have more beef pm me, I'm not getting another thread locked.


oh, please. are you serious? do you really think that an arabic country attacked the us? you're very wrong, my friend.
i don't want to be like some kind of "fan" of zeitgeist that believes every single word on it (but, mostly, i do, besides having some doubts), but did you see it? it will clear up your mind about the 9/11. as pearl harbor was an strategy to have a reason to enter the world war, the same happened with 9/11. it was an excuse to create some kind of "war".
the us government had nothing to say about the 9/11, except of "yeah, bin laden did it". bullshit. sadly, the 9/11 was a huge fake. why sadly? because lots of people died and lots of people lost someone that day. and it was for nothing. absolutely nothing.

i have respect for those who died and their families and friends. i don't have any respect for the united states of america or the 9/11 as a whole. i think everyone should know how they will remember that day.
Offline Gildermershina  
#45 Posted : 13 July 2009 21:06:57(UTC)
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Instead of the Everyday wrote:
You speak as though it's only America that has these problems.


Hey, I'm not saying America is alone, I'm saying America is in denial about its internal problems. Sure everywhere has their problems, but we're talking about America here, and the things America does in the world leave enormous footprints which is why seeking revenge by murdering innocent civilians because they live in a country which may or may not support anti-US terrorism is a crime America is clearly responsible for, and yet people bring up 9/11 "My uncle's friend's sister's ex-husband's dog handler was killed!" and that qualifies as an excuse for Bush's foreign policy.

The point of my post was to point out some of the social problems in America that don't get dealt with while the focus is overseas, and if you dare question the war effort, you're seen as unpatriotic and somehow against America... These problems are not all in one location, they're spread out all over the US, and because of the country's vast size it's very very easy to turn a blind eye to what's happening five states over - even five towns over. No, I don't have first hand experience of any of this, but I also don't have first hand experience of the Antarctic, but I know it's pretty cold.

I'm pointing out America's problems because America is the one that has used terrorism prevention as an excuse, even as a doorway, to an invasion of the Middle East to secure oil. Hell, media types even sold it to the public on the promise that gasoline would become cheaper as a result (which it hasn't). Afghanistan and Iraq may not have the numbers or the technology to defeat the US, but they have people willing to die in hopes to take out tens, hundreds, even thousands of people. Marching a war machine through their countries won't stop that - indeed, suicide bombings are taking out military personnel.

To be fair, the UK has acted as the supportive younger brother in all this, but ultimately, this is about 9/11 and THAT is why I'm talking about America's problems. I'll rant about British problems on a thread about that, but this isn't that thread.
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Offline cam  
#46 Posted : 13 July 2009 21:19:45(UTC)
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I just want to point out something to Instead of the Everyday: RUSSIA STOPPED BEING STALINIST NEARLY TWENTY FUCKING YEARS AGO

Oh and awesome, the nuts have come out, as they will any time you try to have an actual serious discusion about the tragedies that occured on that day in 2001on the internet. For fucksake.

Edited by user 13 July 2009 21:21:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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User is suspended until 16/05/4760 03:38:29(UTC) stephaniewazhere  
#47 Posted : 14 July 2009 02:05:49(UTC)
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What happened was just so harsh to everyone in my family. I was 12, I could remember me crying and all my family crying and going crazy.
Offline Chimp Records  
#48 Posted : 14 July 2009 04:01:47(UTC)
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I was thirteen. My father came to school to pick me up out of the bloom, and took me home. He and my mom were home with my then 10 year old sister and my then newly-born little brother. Although, I live the UK, my parents didn't know what was to happen. They had the thought that the bombers might have been planning to bomb several other countries that are in alliance with US. Luckily, they didn't. Anxiety makes people be too defensive and quick.

Edited by user 14 July 2009 04:03:32(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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User is suspended until 16/05/4760 03:38:29(UTC) stephaniewazhere  
#49 Posted : 14 July 2009 04:04:35(UTC)
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Chimp Records wrote:
I was thirteen. My father came to school to pick me up out of the bloom, and took me home. He and my mom were home with my then 10 year old sister and my then newly-born little brother. Although, I live the UK, my parents didn't know what was to happen. They had the thought that the bombers might have been planning to bomb several other countries that are in alliance with US. Luckily, they didn't. Anxiety makes people be too defensive and quick.


So your 20 now.
Offline Chimp Records  
#50 Posted : 14 July 2009 04:06:23(UTC)
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stephaniewazhere wrote:
Chimp Records wrote:
I was thirteen. My father came to school to pick me up out of the bloom, and took me home. He and my mom were home with my then 10 year old sister and my then newly-born little brother. Although, I live the UK, my parents didn't know what was to happen. They had the thought that the bombers might have been planning to bomb several other countries that are in alliance with US. Luckily, they didn't. Anxiety makes people be too defensive and quick.


So your 20 now.


21. It's been 8 years, not 7. My 21st birthday was in January.
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User is suspended until 16/05/4760 03:38:29(UTC) stephaniewazhere  
#51 Posted : 14 July 2009 04:07:40(UTC)
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Chimp Records wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
Chimp Records wrote:
I was thirteen. My father came to school to pick me up out of the bloom, and took me home. He and my mom were home with my then 10 year old sister and my then newly-born little brother. Although, I live the UK, my parents didn't know what was to happen. They had the thought that the bombers might have been planning to bomb several other countries that are in alliance with US. Luckily, they didn't. Anxiety makes people be too defensive and quick.


So your 20 now.


21. It's been 8 years, not 7. My 21st birthday was in January.


I know.I meant to say your in your 20's not 20.
Offline Chimp Records  
#52 Posted : 14 July 2009 04:11:31(UTC)
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stephaniewazhere wrote:
Chimp Records wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
Chimp Records wrote:
I was thirteen. My father came to school to pick me up out of the bloom, and took me home. He and my mom were home with my then 10 year old sister and my then newly-born little brother. Although, I live the UK, my parents didn't know what was to happen. They had the thought that the bombers might have been planning to bomb several other countries that are in alliance with US. Luckily, they didn't. Anxiety makes people be too defensive and quick.


So your 20 now.


21. It's been 8 years, not 7. My 21st birthday was in January.


I know.I meant to say your in your 20's not 20.


Early Twenty's. Just one more year of college for my Bachelors. I'm planning to be an architect.
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Offline Lepelbos  
#53 Posted : 14 July 2009 04:36:11(UTC)
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I still see Bush sitting in front of children reading a book.
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Offline Chimp Records  
#54 Posted : 14 July 2009 04:37:05(UTC)
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Bush is one of the biggest causes of the shit economy we have now.
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Offline Chimp Records  
#55 Posted : 14 July 2009 04:38:46(UTC)
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Actually, I changed my mind. It's the American people's fault and mainly the US congress's fault for electing this asshole and accepting any of his choices. Just saying, you guys elected him........twice.
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Offline Lepelbos  
#56 Posted : 14 July 2009 04:42:44(UTC)
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Chimp Records wrote:
Bush is one of the biggest causes of the shit economy we have now.


And his gang around him.
Read the news lately about Chaney and the CIA?
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Offline Chimp Records  
#57 Posted : 14 July 2009 04:46:21(UTC)
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Bush is simply a fuckhead. That's it.
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User is suspended until 16/05/4760 03:38:29(UTC) stephaniewazhere  
#58 Posted : 14 July 2009 04:47:33(UTC)
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Chimp Records wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
Chimp Records wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
Chimp Records wrote:
I was thirteen. My father came to school to pick me up out of the bloom, and took me home. He and my mom were home with my then 10 year old sister and my then newly-born little brother. Although, I live the UK, my parents didn't know what was to happen. They had the thought that the bombers might have been planning to bomb several other countries that are in alliance with US. Luckily, they didn't. Anxiety makes people be too defensive and quick.


So your 20 now.


21. It's been 8 years, not 7. My 21st birthday was in January.


I know.I meant to say your in your 20's not 20.


Early Twenty's. Just one more year of college for my Bachelors. I'm planning to be an architect.


Cool, did you know I was going for that at first, but it wasn't my thing. But how in the world are you finishing so early and if your doing that you wouldn't have the time to come on here. Most people who go for architecture finish their Bachelor's in 5 years and it takes 7 years for a master. Plus you want to be certified nationwide, you got to take a test.

Edit: I forgot you said you were planning so you haven't gone to school for that yet, my bad. What is your mayor.

Edited by user 14 July 2009 04:48:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Chimp Records  
#59 Posted : 14 July 2009 04:50:01(UTC)
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stephaniewazhere wrote:
Chimp Records wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
Chimp Records wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
Chimp Records wrote:
I was thirteen. My father came to school to pick me up out of the bloom, and took me home. He and my mom were home with my then 10 year old sister and my then newly-born little brother. Although, I live the UK, my parents didn't know what was to happen. They had the thought that the bombers might have been planning to bomb several other countries that are in alliance with US. Luckily, they didn't. Anxiety makes people be too defensive and quick.


So your 20 now.


21. It's been 8 years, not 7. My 21st birthday was in January.


I know.I meant to say your in your 20's not 20.


Early Twenty's. Just one more year of college for my Bachelors. I'm planning to be an architect.


Cool, did you know I was going for that at first, but it wasn't my thing. But how in the world are you finishing so early and if your doing that you wouldn't have the time to come on here. Most people who go for architecture finish their Bachelor's in 5 years and it takes 7 years for a master. Plus you want to be certified nationwide, you got to take a test.

Edit: I forgot you said you were planning so you haven't gone to school for that yet, my bad. What is your mayor.


When I was seven, they let me skip the first grade :). Plus, I'm on break right now. I'll be returning in about a month, so I won't see you guys quite as often.
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Offline Aj  
#60 Posted : 14 July 2009 07:52:09(UTC)
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Chimp Records wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
Chimp Records wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
Chimp Records wrote:
stephaniewazhere wrote:
Chimp Records wrote:
I was thirteen. My father came to school to pick me up out of the bloom, and took me home. He and my mom were home with my then 10 year old sister and my then newly-born little brother. Although, I live the UK, my parents didn't know what was to happen. They had the thought that the bombers might have been planning to bomb several other countries that are in alliance with US. Luckily, they didn't. Anxiety makes people be too defensive and quick.


So your 20 now.


21. It's been 8 years, not 7. My 21st birthday was in January.


I know.I meant to say your in your 20's not 20.


Early Twenty's. Just one more year of college for my Bachelors. I'm planning to be an architect.


Cool, did you know I was going for that at first, but it wasn't my thing. But how in the world are you finishing so early and if your doing that you wouldn't have the time to come on here. Most people who go for architecture finish their Bachelor's in 5 years and it takes 7 years for a master. Plus you want to be certified nationwide, you got to take a test.

Edit: I forgot you said you were planning so you haven't gone to school for that yet, my bad. What is your mayor.


When I was seven, they let me skip the first grade :). Plus, I'm on break right now. I'll be returning in about a month, so I won't see you guys quite as often.


Why?
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